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	<title>Comments on: Obama&#8217;s Victory: A Sociological Prayer</title>
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	<link>http://www.consumertrap.com/2008/11/obamas-victory.html</link>
	<description>exposing capitalism, marketing &#38; market totalitarianism</description>
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		<title>By: Obama sa Kaitaasan &#171; Kapirasong Kritika</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertrap.com/2008/11/obamas-victory.html/comment-page-1#comment-280</link>
		<dc:creator>Obama sa Kaitaasan &#171; Kapirasong Kritika</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 23:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.consumertrap.com/?p=506#comment-280</guid>
		<description>[...] ni Eric Michael Dyson, progresibong siyentistang panlipunan, ipinapakita ng pagkapanalo ni Obama ang mga pagsulong at [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ni Eric Michael Dyson, progresibong siyentistang panlipunan, ipinapakita ng pagkapanalo ni Obama ang mga pagsulong at [...]</p>
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		<title>By: optimax</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertrap.com/2008/11/obamas-victory.html/comment-page-1#comment-269</link>
		<dc:creator>optimax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 20:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.consumertrap.com/?p=506#comment-269</guid>
		<description>MD, You sound like a Taoist. Welcome to the club. Is the glass half full or half empty is the wrong question. Is the water in the glass filling or receding is better. Life is movement and America has just changed course. Let&#039;s see where it goes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MD, You sound like a Taoist. Welcome to the club. Is the glass half full or half empty is the wrong question. Is the water in the glass filling or receding is better. Life is movement and America has just changed course. Let&#8217;s see where it goes.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Dawson</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertrap.com/2008/11/obamas-victory.html/comment-page-1#comment-268</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Dawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 20:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.consumertrap.com/?p=506#comment-268</guid>
		<description>The dance begins:

&quot;Mr. Obama’s advisers said they were startled, if gratified, by the jubilation that greeted the news of Mr. Obama’s victory in much of the United States and abroad.&quot; [NYT today]

A genie is out of the bottle here, friends.  The Democratic Party peckerwoods are going to try to ignore it and hope it flies back into confinement.

Given the nature of emerging realities and the blast of new hope, it seems possible it won&#039;t oblige so easily this time...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The dance begins:</p>
<p>&#8220;Mr. Obama’s advisers said they were startled, if gratified, by the jubilation that greeted the news of Mr. Obama’s victory in much of the United States and abroad.&#8221; [NYT today]</p>
<p>A genie is out of the bottle here, friends.  The Democratic Party peckerwoods are going to try to ignore it and hope it flies back into confinement.</p>
<p>Given the nature of emerging realities and the blast of new hope, it seems possible it won&#8217;t oblige so easily this time&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Rev. Jose M. Tirado</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertrap.com/2008/11/obamas-victory.html/comment-page-1#comment-267</link>
		<dc:creator>Rev. Jose M. Tirado</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 17:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.consumertrap.com/?p=506#comment-267</guid>
		<description>RJ, OK, so it doesn´t happen. Is the only alternative that world-destroying Moloch? Or is it (as it always has been throughout history) something less BIG and more hum-drum? My guess is the latter.

Look, victories are won daily. Cochabamba is a small example. Evo Morales, Hugo Chavez, and others are trying to think out of the box. The world is much more connected than when I was a kid and thus so is labor. I don´t believe in either-or anymore. 

I believe change occurs slowly and incrementally and if I can help in one small way in one small battle then that is fine by me. &quot;Don´t make the perfect the enemy of the good&quot; I heard once or twice. And while the world I seek is better than the one I´ll get, people´s lives matter and if we can score a small victory towards a more compassionate world then let´s go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RJ, OK, so it doesn´t happen. Is the only alternative that world-destroying Moloch? Or is it (as it always has been throughout history) something less BIG and more hum-drum? My guess is the latter.</p>
<p>Look, victories are won daily. Cochabamba is a small example. Evo Morales, Hugo Chavez, and others are trying to think out of the box. The world is much more connected than when I was a kid and thus so is labor. I don´t believe in either-or anymore. </p>
<p>I believe change occurs slowly and incrementally and if I can help in one small way in one small battle then that is fine by me. &#8220;Don´t make the perfect the enemy of the good&#8221; I heard once or twice. And while the world I seek is better than the one I´ll get, people´s lives matter and if we can score a small victory towards a more compassionate world then let´s go.</p>
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		<title>By: RJHall</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertrap.com/2008/11/obamas-victory.html/comment-page-1#comment-266</link>
		<dc:creator>RJHall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 16:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.consumertrap.com/?p=506#comment-266</guid>
		<description>it’s our only hope; but having even just one world-destroyer say &quot;I’d rather destroy the world than let the commies win&quot; is like the ultimate abandon-all-hope-ye-who-enter-here.  It would just take one (and again, there&#039;d probably be dozens or hundreds) and it&#039;s Game Over, dude.  The Internationale or &quot;Imagine&quot; or whatever songs or music you like would suddenly come to a screeching halt with a noise like the phonograph needle being scratchily removed from the record.

And that’s IF the victory of humanity (the revolution) ever seems imminent.  I suspect it won&#039;t even get that far -- assuming it isn’t already too late.  (And if it don’t happen soon, it ain&#039;t never gonna happen.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it’s our only hope; but having even just one world-destroyer say &#8220;I’d rather destroy the world than let the commies win&#8221; is like the ultimate abandon-all-hope-ye-who-enter-here.  It would just take one (and again, there&#8217;d probably be dozens or hundreds) and it&#8217;s Game Over, dude.  The Internationale or &#8220;Imagine&#8221; or whatever songs or music you like would suddenly come to a screeching halt with a noise like the phonograph needle being scratchily removed from the record.</p>
<p>And that’s IF the victory of humanity (the revolution) ever seems imminent.  I suspect it won&#8217;t even get that far &#8212; assuming it isn’t already too late.  (And if it don’t happen soon, it ain&#8217;t never gonna happen.)</p>
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		<title>By: RJHall</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertrap.com/2008/11/obamas-victory.html/comment-page-1#comment-265</link>
		<dc:creator>RJHall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 16:43:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.consumertrap.com/?p=506#comment-265</guid>
		<description>(It looks like Merkley won after all.  (Close Senate race in Oregon.)  Whew, that was close! :-) )

Speaking of hope, here&#039;s a cheery thought: What&#039;s to stop at least one (probably dozens or hundreds) Dick-Cheney-type saying defiantly, as the victory of humanity (which the Dick-Cheney-type would certainly equate with, as incidentally do I, the victory of the revolution) seems imminent, &quot;I&#039;d rather destroy the world than let the commies win&quot; and launching the nukes or the virus or whatever?  This would put a full stop to humanity with the same utter finality with which a period puts a full stop to a sentence.  All the words written by Marx, Engels, Luxemburg, Lenin, Trotsky, etc. (none of whom even imagined that scenario, of course) are answered irrefutably by that possibility, which, when I think about it, seems almost a certainty in exactly the same way that flipping 50,000 coins will almost certainly result in at least one &quot;head&quot;, with only wishful thinking justifying any hope at all that all 50,000 of them will without exception come up &quot;tails&quot;.  Socialism is not just a good idea, it</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(It looks like Merkley won after all.  (Close Senate race in Oregon.)  Whew, that was close! <img src='http://www.consumertrap.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  )</p>
<p>Speaking of hope, here&#8217;s a cheery thought: What&#8217;s to stop at least one (probably dozens or hundreds) Dick-Cheney-type saying defiantly, as the victory of humanity (which the Dick-Cheney-type would certainly equate with, as incidentally do I, the victory of the revolution) seems imminent, &#8220;I&#8217;d rather destroy the world than let the commies win&#8221; and launching the nukes or the virus or whatever?  This would put a full stop to humanity with the same utter finality with which a period puts a full stop to a sentence.  All the words written by Marx, Engels, Luxemburg, Lenin, Trotsky, etc. (none of whom even imagined that scenario, of course) are answered irrefutably by that possibility, which, when I think about it, seems almost a certainty in exactly the same way that flipping 50,000 coins will almost certainly result in at least one &#8220;head&#8221;, with only wishful thinking justifying any hope at all that all 50,000 of them will without exception come up &#8220;tails&#8221;.  Socialism is not just a good idea, it</p>
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		<title>By: Rev. Jose M. Tirado</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertrap.com/2008/11/obamas-victory.html/comment-page-1#comment-264</link>
		<dc:creator>Rev. Jose M. Tirado</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 13:57:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.consumertrap.com/?p=506#comment-264</guid>
		<description>RJ: Why leave the country with examples? There were regular riots during the Johnson administration and protests everywhere. In fact, in 1968 the Kerner Commission concluded that the country was heading toward &quot;two societies, one black, one white.&quot; 

And don´t forget that under FDR there were huge strikes and agitation. The Wagner Act which &quot;gave us the right to strike&quot; was passed under a Dem admin--FDR. (Because the Congress needed to control how out of control the workers were then by limiting the strikes. That´s right. &quot;Legalizing&quot; strikes put the stamp of enforcement on it by government.) 

Same for Dem Truman who actually rolled back many of the gains made by workinig people under FDR. 

(He called in the military against workers and pushed Taft-Hartley.) Thus the greatest protests and &quot;hit the streets&quot; mentality in the past century has basically occured under Dem governments. 

The chance of change, for the promotion of real democracy occurs when the people know what is isn´t working 8anger) and can see or are inspired to envision what might (hope) Thus the Obama administration is a perfect place to begin the work needed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RJ: Why leave the country with examples? There were regular riots during the Johnson administration and protests everywhere. In fact, in 1968 the Kerner Commission concluded that the country was heading toward &#8220;two societies, one black, one white.&#8221; </p>
<p>And don´t forget that under FDR there were huge strikes and agitation. The Wagner Act which &#8220;gave us the right to strike&#8221; was passed under a Dem admin&#8211;FDR. (Because the Congress needed to control how out of control the workers were then by limiting the strikes. That´s right. &#8220;Legalizing&#8221; strikes put the stamp of enforcement on it by government.) </p>
<p>Same for Dem Truman who actually rolled back many of the gains made by workinig people under FDR. </p>
<p>(He called in the military against workers and pushed Taft-Hartley.) Thus the greatest protests and &#8220;hit the streets&#8221; mentality in the past century has basically occured under Dem governments. </p>
<p>The chance of change, for the promotion of real democracy occurs when the people know what is isn´t working 8anger) and can see or are inspired to envision what might (hope) Thus the Obama administration is a perfect place to begin the work needed.</p>
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		<title>By: RJHall</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertrap.com/2008/11/obamas-victory.html/comment-page-1#comment-263</link>
		<dc:creator>RJHall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 10:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.consumertrap.com/?p=506#comment-263</guid>
		<description>I don’t know.. seems like people fall asleep under Democratic presidents but at least they march against Republican ones.  I’m afraid I don’t exclude myself.  I marched in Eugene against Bush I, and people all over the world (even here in Luxembourg) marched against Bush II, but I never marched against Bill Clinton, and I don’t remember that anyone else did either, even when his policies like bombing Yugoslavia could have called for it.  Was the “Battle in Seattle” in 1999 the only time anyone erupted under Clinton in his whole 8 years?

When anger is mixed with hope, the only examples of street heat I can think of are like St. Petersburg in 1905, when the people marched to petition the czar to please ease up on the oppression just a tad (like Oliver Twist holding up his empty gruel bowl and saying “Please sir, may I have more?”), which didn’t turn out all that well for them (though Bloody Sunday did at least inspire people for the rest of that year and for 12 years later who no longer shared that naïve hope).

So I can only add that I hope the people don’t now fall asleep under President Obama but stay awake and angry and take less than 12 years to be disappointed of their naïve hope!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don’t know.. seems like people fall asleep under Democratic presidents but at least they march against Republican ones.  I’m afraid I don’t exclude myself.  I marched in Eugene against Bush I, and people all over the world (even here in Luxembourg) marched against Bush II, but I never marched against Bill Clinton, and I don’t remember that anyone else did either, even when his policies like bombing Yugoslavia could have called for it.  Was the “Battle in Seattle” in 1999 the only time anyone erupted under Clinton in his whole 8 years?</p>
<p>When anger is mixed with hope, the only examples of street heat I can think of are like St. Petersburg in 1905, when the people marched to petition the czar to please ease up on the oppression just a tad (like Oliver Twist holding up his empty gruel bowl and saying “Please sir, may I have more?”), which didn’t turn out all that well for them (though Bloody Sunday did at least inspire people for the rest of that year and for 12 years later who no longer shared that naïve hope).</p>
<p>So I can only add that I hope the people don’t now fall asleep under President Obama but stay awake and angry and take less than 12 years to be disappointed of their naïve hope!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Dawson</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertrap.com/2008/11/obamas-victory.html/comment-page-1#comment-261</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Dawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 23:08:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.consumertrap.com/?p=506#comment-261</guid>
		<description>Well, it&#039;s curious and illogical, but the studies do suggest that Sitkoff is correct.  People only rebel when they have some hope to accompany their anger.

Remember that the Seattle anti-capitalist eruption happened under Clinton, and hasn&#039;t been heard from under Monkeyman.

And what I&#039;m saying isn&#039;t hope for something from above.  I&#039;m saying let&#039;s return to organizing, and kick this cracked door open!

Thanks for the feedback!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, it&#8217;s curious and illogical, but the studies do suggest that Sitkoff is correct.  People only rebel when they have some hope to accompany their anger.</p>
<p>Remember that the Seattle anti-capitalist eruption happened under Clinton, and hasn&#8217;t been heard from under Monkeyman.</p>
<p>And what I&#8217;m saying isn&#8217;t hope for something from above.  I&#8217;m saying let&#8217;s return to organizing, and kick this cracked door open!</p>
<p>Thanks for the feedback!</p>
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		<title>By: Jim R</title>
		<link>http://www.consumertrap.com/2008/11/obamas-victory.html/comment-page-1#comment-260</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 22:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.consumertrap.com/?p=506#comment-260</guid>
		<description>What troubles me is how the self identified liberal and progressive Democrats are giving him a pass as he ignores or goes against all they believe in.
When we start to hear  how the  Democrats war is a good war (Afghanistan) we better start looking  elsewhere for salvation</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What troubles me is how the self identified liberal and progressive Democrats are giving him a pass as he ignores or goes against all they believe in.<br />
When we start to hear  how the  Democrats war is a good war (Afghanistan) we better start looking  elsewhere for salvation</p>
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